The second Lieutenant interview in my HR series is with Zoë Harte, Chief People Officer at Upwork. Upwork is a company I've greatly admired. Partly because of their mission (to create economic opportunities so people have better lives), but also because they've been focused on remote and independent work for more than 20 years. Not a bad place to be given the work environment we're all dealing with today.  Zoë has been at Upwork (previously oDesk) for almost eight years and has seen a lot in that time -- the merger of oDesk and Elance, a successful IPO debut in late 2018, followed by a stock runoff in 2019, along with multiple CEO changes.  In this Q&A she talks about how Upwork manages its own hybrid and remote workforce and how HR can be a guidepost for culture, why speaking the truth is so important, and why "you can't half ass 2020."

Your title recently changed to Chief People Officer, but before that happened you were not just the Head of HR but also "Talent Innovation." Tell us about that part of your role.

I look after the people and places part of our business, which includes not only traditional HR duties like recruiting, benefits and talent strategy, but also the onboarding and compliance aspects of our enterprise clients. The talent innovation piece is focused on how we as a company manage our own hybrid workforce. We have about 500 corporate full-time employees and more than 1200 Upwork freelancers who partner back with us. Many departments at Upwork are hybrid departments, which may surprise some people. We also own a piece of the business. If you're an Enterprise customer who is coming to us for help with a program and project, we facilitate all the onboarding, compliance, risk and payrolling of their Upwork freelancers. It's an awesome job because it's a real driver for the business in so many ways.

If you were to describe your leadership style in one word, what would it be?

Probably authentic. I try to minimize the mystique and the pretense of being an executive. I grew up thinking that once I was a director or a VP, that my life would magically fall into place and that has yet to happen. I believe in telling my whole story -- who I am as a person, how that shows up in my leadership style, and how I think about business decisions. If I leave my coffee on the kitchen table because I was fighting with the kids to put on their shoes, I'm going to be grumpy. And that's OK. I don't want people to think there's this magical Island where executives live and everything is wonderful. I want everybody to know this is an attainable job, and the work that we do is the same as they do.

I don't want people to think there's this magical island where the executives live and everything is wonderful. I want everybody to know this is an attainable job, and the work that we do is the same as they do.

I often say culture isn't one person's job, but generally speaking, the head of HR plays a pretty big role in maintaining a company's culture. What role do you and your team play in keeping the culture going as the company grows?

Culture is everything. When I was interviewing with Gary Swart, who was oDesk's CEO at the time, we spent the entire interview talking about culture and what he wanted it to feel like to work and be successful at the company. I was blown away. I called my husband as soon as I walked out of the interview and said, "I don't care how much money they offer me, I'm taking this job. I will do anything to work at this place."

I think building and supporting the culture is one of the greatest responsibilities and privileges that this job holds. You are the steward of your mission, and what matters to your employee and customer base. I certainly play a role in this, but we have an incredible team who is driving culture in a million different ways. And it's not just HR. It's one thing for HR to say we put the customer first, but if your sales and marketing team don't think that way or your product isn't focused that way, then it doesn't matter what HR says. But the HR team can act as a guidepost in a company. When people have a concern, or they're excited about a new direction, people will lift up their heads and look to HR. If the team is like "that's right, keep going, this is the right way," then people notice. But it takes the whole team. The most important HR person is the person who's helping you right then.

The HR team can act as a guidepost in a company.

Our mantra is that HR goes first. For every hard thing that needs to happen in the company, I personally will do it first. Then the HR leadership team will do it. Then the entire HR team will do it. This means we will have been through these changes before the rest of the company so that we can help people through it.

Our mantra is that HR goes first...This means we will have been through these changes before the rest of the company so that we can help people through it.

Has Upwork's culture changed over the years? 

It has certainly evolved. When I joined oDesk, we only had a hundred full-time employees. Then we merged with Elance. A merger is always interesting from an HR perspective. We liken it to when you move in with somebody. The process starts out one way, but you've really got to do the work to figure out how to live together. But it was a great learning experience. Hayden Brown, who is our CEO now, has been with the company for years. She's putting her own stamp on the organization and I think it's elevated our level of execution, discipline and focus all while having such a strong tie to our mission. Our mission hasn't changed and it is the reason we come to work and the reason we choose to stay.

What's it like to help lead an organization, especially one as distributed as yours, through a year like 2020? What's been your toughest challenge? 

You can't half-ass 2020. This year has shaken so many of us to the core. Not only for HR but across every team. We reacted really quickly to COVID, stopping travel, events and shuttering our offices on March 6. Because we had been a remote work company for 20 years, we knew how to do it, but there's a big difference from working from home one day a week to everyone working at their kitchen tables every day. 

You can't half-ass 2020. This year has shaken so many of us to the core. 

One thing that has really helped was our Graceful Leave program, something we learned from another technology company. At the beginning of the year when Hayden came on as CEO we said, "this is where we're going as an organization, are you in?" This was pre-COVID, pre-race crisis, pre-all those things but we knew it was going to be a tough year in terms of the amount of work and focus we were driving in the business. We knew some people had been at the company for a long time, and might not want to sign up for that. So we gave them two weeks, and asked every single person to talk to their manager and whether or not they were in. If they weren't all in, it was OK. We appreciate all they had done for the company, and partnered with them on a transition that was fair and generous. 

One thing that has really helped was our Graceful Leave program...It was a real injection of passion and alignment, which frankly set us up very well for what was to come.

We took the entire company through that in six weeks, and it was great. Everybody had a good conversation and everybody could make their choice. Then when we got our teams back together, we knew everyone chose to be there. It was a real injection of passion and alignment, which frankly set us up very well for what was to come.  

What are some attributes you think make a great Lieutenant?

The number one thing that makes you a great Lieutenant is the ability to tell the truth, especially when it's hard. You have to feel comfortable actively challenging a leader, and demonstrating you can do that in a successful, non-threatening way. Showing that you know how to debate, align and commit. Speak your truth constantly. One of the worst things that can happen in an organization, especially at the executive level, is the meeting after the meeting. Where something is supposedly agreed upon and then it gets undermined with the team. 

[Consensus] is not about making sure everyone agrees, but making sure that everybody is heard who wants to be heard. Then making a decision and moving everyone forward.

There's so much value in building consensus. Having gone to a Quaker school, I learned a lot about consensus. It's not about making sure everyone agrees, but making sure that everybody is heard who wants to be heard. Then making a decision and moving everyone forward. I believe very strongly in the need for people to be heard. As a leader, you need to create that space for voices who aren't typically heard. For example, we're really pushing ourselves organizationally to do more anti-racism work. There's an opportunity for us to get better there. 

As a leader, you need to create that space for voices who aren't typically heard.

How do you handle these sensitive but important issues with a distributed workforce?

We believe in including our extended workforce as much as humanly possible. Now, obviously there are legal and compliance constraints, but many of these extended team members have just as much buy-in and as much to contribute as people who are full-time employees. We strive to equip our managers with the skills to facilitate really proactive, collaborative, remote work sessions. It's definitely a skill. Because if a big cohort of people is in one room and there are other people who are remote, it can be a disadvantage for those who are remote. Especially, we find, if those remote workers are women or minorities who can find it harder for their voices to be heard.

We have a common business practice to make sure remote people always speak first when something is up for debate. The person who is in the room with the fewest people will go first. One of the great advantages for us during the COVID crisis has been the democratization of conversations because now we're all remote. It really helps level the playing field. 

We have a common business practice to make sure remote people always speak first when something is up for debate. 

What do you love about your current CEO?

There's a lot I love about Hayden, but I love that she exemplifies compassionate courage. She's a bold thinker who is pushing this business forward and doing it in a way where her compassion and her belief in our mission are woven through everything. Every choice she makes. She leads with incredible passion for our business, and her authenticity, openness, and integrity comes through every day. 

In one-sentence, what do you want your long-term professional legacy to be? 

It would be helping people accomplish more than they ever dreamed they could.